Re: ZhongShi--Greetings

[Silver Black]

*shivers. 


How do you know what Toth deck is anyway Zong shi ? 


I know what it is and I don't suggest to use it. 


It's rather risky.

[ZhongShi]

I've used the Thoth deck for many years, along with a number of others like the Rider-Waite, Medieval Enchantment and Rohrig decks. I also use the I Ching, and cast the runes. What is it that scares you about the Thoth deck, Silver??

[Silver Black]

How do you guies knew about the Toth deck. 


i'm impressed you know about it. 

[Nekoman]

I'm lost. What are these "decks" you're talking about?

[Cypress]

I'm lost. What are these "decks" you're talking about?

They are Tarot Cards, I believe.

[ZhongShi]

That would be correct, Cypress...there are many variations of tarot cards, most of which originated in the middle ages

[Nekoman]

That would be correct, Cypress...there are many variations of tarot cards, most of which originated in the middle ages

I know next to nothing about tarot cards, but the whole concept seems ridiculous to me. (Says the guy who makes charms that alter what people can do) Feel free to prove me wrong about the cards if you can.

[Liudan]

The concept is but divination, often one uses their own energy, a deity, or another source to get an answer to mundane things to one's spiritual development. I do not think it's a matter of proving you wrong, they will continue to be of use to those that have experienced them.

The Thoth deck is usually frowned on getting due to Aleister Crowley's history, as he worked with beings like demons and the likes, he also dipped into taboo acts. While some I agree are not use to the energy of demonics so they get a "bad" feeling from it, some do believe that energy is linked to his creation of the thoth deck, so it's believed that the deck has :bad juju" there has been claims of having a pulling or "creepy" feel from it.

[ZhongShi]

There is no "wrong" or "right"...there is only manipulation of energy, either your own, or that of the universe...we each have our own talismans, or rituals, to perform in order to harness that energy...you make charms, so do I; I use Tarot and the I Ching, you do not...Does it matter? No. We just use different methods to achieve whatever our goals are.
I will also add, as an edit, that anyone's purpose becomes suspect the moment that you begin to use your energies or powers to control or manipulate others to do your own will...that is when you've crossed into the darkness that men call evil.
Regarding Crowley, he used Thelema and the Grimoire of Solomon to call forth beings that may or may not have been of that darkness. He also founded the OTA (Order of the Temple of Astarte) and OTO (Order of the Temple of Orientis), both of which performed ritual magick in the tradition of the Kabbalah, which are the ancient Jewish mystical writings, and another order of magick altogether.
However, in my opinion, using the panoply of Egyptian gods and the ancient names of all the gods and goddesses that mankind has worshiped throughout time as he did, I believe those beings were simply manifestations of the power of the universe.
This example is only one of many, Haka being another type of the old ways that has found light again as the world reawakens from the difficult period it has been undergoing.

[Liudan]

There is no "wrong" or "right"...there is only manipulation of energy, either your own, or that of the universe...we each have our own talismans, or rituals, to perform in order to harness that energy...you make charms, so do I; I use Tarot and the I Ching, you do not...Does it matter? No. We just use different methods to achieve whatever our goals are.

That's basically how I see it, I do not believe in right or wrong, positive or negative, good and evil..simply experiences that our perception and such place labels on, instead of experiencing as is.

[ZhongShi]

Zigarun, check my edit, please and see if you still concur. I might also add here that the concepts of good and evil, light and dark, positive and negative...are all Tao...none exists without the other and are a whole in and of themselves.

[Liudan]

Zigarun, check my edit, please and see if you still concur. I might also add here that the concepts of good and evil, light and dark, positive and negative...are all Tao...none exists without the other and are a whole in and of themselves.

I still agree with the part I quoted while I find good and evil to be only something humans choose to label things, positive and negative while most likely exist in other races and people's perception does not exist in mine. I believe everyone's actions has a reason, whether I agree or disagree with those reasons is my own perception that I should not force as a fact.

Although, being "deitykin" I agree to an extent, while I am a embodiment of the void, there are primordial deities who embody concepts such as light energy, dark energy, etc that exists in the universe. While we are a race of beings we have generations that are born with certain energies. There's also some "deities" that are simply given the title deity for one reason or another.

[ZhongShi]

Zigarun, check my edit, please and see if you still concur. I might also add here that the concepts of good and evil, light and dark, positive and negative...are all Tao...none exists without the other and are a whole in and of themselves.

I still agree with the part I quoted while I find good and evil to be only something humans choose to label things, positive and negative while most likely exist in other races and people's perception does not exist in mine. I believe everyone's actions has a reason, whether I agree or disagree with those reasons is my own perception that I should not force as a fact.

Although, being "deitykin" I agree to an extent, while I am a embodiment of the void, there are primordial deities who embody concepts such as light energy, dark energy, etc that exists in the universe. While we are a race of beings we have generations that are born with certain energies. There's also some "deities" that are simply given the title deity for one reason or another.

Well written, and a concise answer...thank you. I like the way you think.

[Liudan]

Zigarun, check my edit, please and see if you still concur. I might also add here that the concepts of good and evil, light and dark, positive and negative...are all Tao...none exists without the other and are a whole in and of themselves.

I still agree with the part I quoted while I find good and evil to be only something humans choose to label things, positive and negative while most likely exist in other races and people's perception does not exist in mine. I believe everyone's actions has a reason, whether I agree or disagree with those reasons is my own perception that I should not force as a fact.

Although, being "deitykin" I agree to an extent, while I am a embodiment of the void, there are primordial deities who embody concepts such as light energy, dark energy, etc that exists in the universe. While we are a race of beings we have generations that are born with certain energies. There's also some "deities" that are simply given the title deity for one reason or another.

Well written, and a concise answer...thank you. I like the way you think.

Thank you, you're a very insightful fellow.

[ZhongShi]

Thanks for the compliment...Your knowledge is impressive. I've been around the block a time or two. I can recognize a brother practitioner...though our "disciplines" carry different names in this realm, we work to the same purposes.

[Nekoman]

There is no "wrong" or "right"...there is only manipulation of energy, either your own, or that of the universe...we each have our own talismans, or rituals, to perform in order to harness that energy...you make charms, so do I;  I use Tarot and the I Ching, you do not...Does it matter? No. We just use different methods to achieve whatever our goals are.
I will also add, as an edit, that anyone's purpose becomes suspect the moment that you begin to use your energies or powers to control or manipulate others to do your own will...that is when you've crossed into the darkness that men call evil.
Regarding Crowley, he used Thelema and the Grimoire of Solomon to call forth beings that may or may not have been of that darkness. He also founded the OTA (Order of the Temple of Astarte) and OTO (Order of the Temple of Orientis), both of which performed ritual magick in the tradition of the Kabbalah, which are the ancient Jewish mystical writings, and another order of magick altogether.
However, in my opinion, using the panoply of Egyptian gods and the ancient names of all the gods and goddesses that mankind has worshiped throughout time as he did, I believe those beings were simply manifestations of the power of the universe.
This example is only one of many, Haka being another type of the old ways that has found light again as the world reawakens from the difficult period it has been undergoing.

I'm still unclear on what tarot cards are actually used for, but it doesn't really matter. My charms are advanced enough that I can probably mimic it. (If I can ever figure out how to control what charms I make)

I don't manipulate people, I just manipulate what they can do. My charms can give a major blessing or a dangerous curse, but I never know what will happen. My charms give you what you need, not what you want. (With a consistent benefit to me while you're wearing my charms)

And... You completely lost me at "Crowly".

[Liudan]

Tarots are used for divination, it's not something that really needs to be mimic'd..the cards are simply a tool used for psychic purposes, some use pendulums, some use dice, some use their own abilities. Everyone in reality is psychic to an extent which is why they I suppose seem like they can be mimic'd.

Now it if was a core ability, those things can't be mimic'd I personally use my tarot cards to answer questions I have on my spirituality, my future, life choices, and the likes.

[Nekoman]

Tarots are used for divination, it's not something that really needs to be mimic'd..the cards are simply a tool used for psychic purposes, some use pendulums, some use dice, some use their own abilities. Everyone in reality is psychic to an extent which is why they I suppose seem like they can be mimic'd.

Now it if was a core ability, those things can't be mimic'd I personally use my tarot cards to answer questions I have on my spirituality, my future, life choices, and the likes.

Oh, that thing. That stuff isn't good for anything but bogus advice from what I've seen. It works for some people, but for most it's a death trap. Divination often leads to humans doing stupid things they probably shouldn't. Also, looking into the future changes the future, and trust me, it causes more trouble than you think. (Someone has to clean up the mess you reckless diviners make)

Hahaha... Core abilities can't be mimicked. Priceless. Next I suppose you'll tell me there are no shortcuts to learning. (I'm pretty sure divination is a shortcut, and it's not the only one I know of) Core abilities are a dime a dozen in my book. Most are fairly common and easily copied. Every once in awhile though, you'll find something truly unique. That is what I specialize in.

[Liudan]

Tarots are used for divination, it's not something that really needs to be mimic'd..the cards are simply a tool used for psychic purposes, some use pendulums, some use dice, some use their own abilities. Everyone in reality is psychic to an extent which is why they I suppose seem like they can be mimic'd.

Now it if was a core ability, those things can't be mimic'd I personally use my tarot cards to answer questions I have on my spirituality, my future, life choices, and the likes.

Oh, that thing. That stuff isn't good for anything but bogus advice from what I've seen. It works for some people, but for most it's a death trap. Divination often leads to humans doing stupid things they probably shouldn't. Also, looking into the future changes the future, and trust me, it causes more trouble than you think. (Someone has to clean up the mess you reckless diviners make)

Hahaha... Core abilities can't be mimicked. Priceless. Next I suppose you'll tell me there are no shortcuts to learning. (I'm pretty sure divination is a shortcut, and it's not the only one I know of) Core abilities are a dime a dozen in my book. Most are fairly common and easily copied. Every once in awhile though, you'll find something truly unique. That is what I specialize in.

Seems your not understanding, divination leads to simply that divination, people use divination to improve or alter -their- future or to know how their progress in what they are doing is going. Looking into the future changes the future because no future is set in stone to begin with. So changing the future even without looking into it will happen...but at this point you are free to your perception of how they are and I will leave it at that.

core abilities are far from a dime a dozen, core abilities are abilities that are akin to the individual's core, their kinity is created with or that individual is created with. It cannot be copied. Polymorphs and anything that falls into mimic can only take on forms and abilities that are latent to everyone, not abilities that are ingrained in the core. There are many abilities you will not be able to copy for the exact reason of you not being that being or having their core. Copied abilities are more along the lines of latent abilities everyone already whether conscious of it or not.

Sorry ZhongShi, I do not intend to defile your introduction it is not my intention to carry this on.

[Nekoman]

Seems your not understanding, divination leads to simply that divination, people use divination to improve or alter -their- future or to know how their progress in what they are doing is going. Looking into the future changes the future because no future is set in stone to begin with. So changing the future even without looking into it will happen...but at this point you are free to your perception of how they are and I will leave it at that.

core abilities are far from a dime a dozen, core abilities are abilities that are akin to the individual's core, their kinity is created with or that individual is created with. It cannot be copied. Polymorphs and anything that falls into mimic can only take on forms and abilities that are latent to everyone, not abilities that are ingrained in the core. There are many abilities you will not be able to copy for the exact reason of you not being that being or having their core. Copied abilities are more along the lines of latent abilities everyone already whether conscious of it or not.

Sorry ZhongShi, I do not intend to defile your introduction it is not my intention to carry this on.

Improving your own life has a ripple effect that can ruin the lives of others. Did you ever think of that? Of course not; it's the time keepers' jobs to think of that, and fix every problem you cause that can be fixed. Of course, not every problem you cause can be fixed. Divination can cause irreparable damage if overused.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. After all, who's to say one can't have the core ability to copy core abilities?

I have no desire to drag this out or defile this page either, but I have strong distaste for reckless future seeing.

[Liudan]

Seems your not understanding, divination leads to simply that divination, people use divination to improve or alter -their- future or to know how their progress in what they are doing is going. Looking into the future changes the future because no future is set in stone to begin with. So changing the future even without looking into it will happen...but at this point you are free to your perception of how they are and I will leave it at that.

core abilities are far from a dime a dozen, core abilities are abilities that are akin to the individual's core, their kinity is created with or that individual is created with. It cannot be copied. Polymorphs and anything that falls into mimic can only take on forms and abilities that are latent to everyone, not abilities that are ingrained in the core. There are many abilities you will not be able to copy for the exact reason of you not being that being or having their core. Copied abilities are more along the lines of latent abilities everyone already whether conscious of it or not.

Sorry ZhongShi, I do not intend to defile your introduction it is not my intention to carry this on.

Improving your own life has a ripple effect that can ruin the lives of others. Did you ever think of that? Of course not; it's the time keepers' jobs to think of that, and fix every problem you cause that can be fixed. Of course, not every problem you cause can be fixed. Divination can cause irreparable damage if overused.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. After all, who's to say one can't have the core ability to copy core abilities?

I have no desire to drag this out or defile this page either, but I have strong distaste for reckless future seeing.

If you see it that way, personally I do not believe in the whole time keeper ordeal that some talk about since balance does not need to be associated with what caused the imbalance. Divination is what it is.

We will indeed agree to disagree, from my experience no one has managed to copy my core abilities despite being able to mimic form and the likes.

seeing the future doesn't cause anything, seeing as the concept of multiverse exists, but again each to their own.

[ZhongShi]

Gentlemen, I do not see this in any negative sense, as I believe in, and will fight for, free discussion of ideas, beliefs, and principles so long as it is courteous, reasonable, and does not devolve into name calling and personal attacks. At this point, you have both made reasonable statements of belief, posited your individual thoughts and reasoning behind your arguments, and now can conclude the discussion in peace. I thank you both for making this a lively page. I couldn't have wished for a better greeting page!

[Nekoman]

If you see it that way, personally I do not believe in the whole time keeper ordeal that some talk about since balance does not need to be associated with what caused the imbalance. Divination is what it is.

We will indeed agree to disagree, from my experience no one has managed to copy my core abilities despite being able to mimic form and the likes.

seeing the future doesn't cause anything, seeing as the concept of multiverse exists, but again each to their own.

How diviners see divination: Look into the possible futures and choose the best one.

How time keepers see divination: Crash recklessly into an external view of the possible futures, creating cracks that offer new possibilities that shouldn't be there. Some of those cracks realign to the original possibilities, but others lead into whole new areas that were previously inaccessible. Simply put, you're breaking time.

The trouble is when you decide the new areas are the most beneficial to you, failing to notice that you drag everyone else down that path with you, where unexpected dangers lurk for them. Of course, since you don't think time keepers are a real thing, I'm guessing you aren't going to take that seriously. People who think like that make my job so hard.

No one has ever copied your core abilities, huh? What are those core abilities, exactly? They may be more common than you think.

[Nekoman]

Gentlemen, I do not see this in any negative sense, as I believe in, and will fight for, free discussion of ideas, beliefs, and principles so long as it is courteous, reasonable, and does not devolve into name calling and personal attacks. At this point, you have both made reasonable statements of belief, posited your individual thoughts and reasoning behind your arguments, and now can conclude the discussion in peace. I thank you both for making this a lively page. I couldn't have wished for a better greeting page!

Oh hey, someone who actually sees the difference between an argument and a discussion. A wonderful change of pace from the classic offended third party that thinks they'll get caught in crossfire that isn't there.

[Liudan]

Gentlemen, I do not see this in any negative sense, as I believe in, and will fight for, free discussion of ideas, beliefs, and principles so long as it is courteous, reasonable, and does not devolve into name calling and personal attacks. At this point, you have both made reasonable statements of belief, posited your individual thoughts and reasoning behind your arguments, and now can conclude the discussion in peace. I thank you both for making this a lively page. I couldn't have wished for a better greeting page!

Oh hey, someone who actually sees the difference between an argument and a discussion. A wonderful change of pace from the classic offended third party that thinks they'll get caught in crossfire that isn't there.

Fair enough ^^


Also Nekoman:

If that is how you see it. again to each their own.


My abilities center around the void, while people can connect to the void they cannot use it the way a primordial deva uses it.  I will refrain from going further before a claim that you have already done it might arise when I know kin wise you have most likely not. For the exact reason they are akin to a void primordial. While I know my latent abilities can indeed be mimic'd.

Though I did not see this as an argument, I simply did not want to ruin the thread's original purpose.

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